DCC Question

To “Thinking of DCC’s” John Sipple:

I’ve read your report on DCC units in the Model Railroad News and understand you’ll answer questions on DCC units. I just purchased an SD70MAC diesel from USA Trains and I want to install a DCC unit handset and a soundboard. I need your help to choose a low-priced, quality unit. Something easy to install and operate for “G” scale. I plan to operate four engines at this time on a 20 foot by 18 foot layout. I probably need a new power supply too.

I have been told to try MRC units or Soundtraxx Tsunami. What do you think?

Thanks,

Don Stokes
Cleveland, OH

Hi Don, as it stands right now, MRC does not have a decoder that begins to handle that sort of amperage. When I measured our SD70MAC sample for stall amperage, I got around 10 amps, which is the number you must use for planning a DCC decoder. Only NCE’s non-sound D808 can handle this model. Installation into any USA Trains locomotive requires extensive wiring. I haven’t been inside of the SD70MAC yet because I’ve been waiting for Soundtraxx to deliver a Tsunami capable of handling this type of amperage, but it’s still on the horizon.

You use the expression “DCC unit handset” and that needs to be explored. Under DCC, the locomotive has a decoder inside. Power to the track comes from a booster which is driven by a command station. The handheld controller is connected to the command station. Certain products, such as the Digitrax 8 amp Superchief, have the command station and booster in one case. NCE produces a 10 amp system. Both types feature a handset controller, connected by a cable. Digitrax also offers an RC hand controller for considerably more money.

Large amperage systems are not cheap, nor are large amperage decoders. Everything in the Garden Scales is much more pricey than their HO counterparts. I don’t think the words “low-priced” and “quality” can be used with the same product. If you intend to operate all four of those locos at the same time, and if they are all amp-suckers like the SD70MAC, you are going to need a power supply that is capable of some pretty serious amperage, and remember that the largest DCC system will only support 10 amps.

At this time, I have four locomotives with DCC sound in them and one with factory DC sound. Three DCC units are all Aristo-Craft locos with DG583AR decoders in them as well as SoundTraxx DSX sound-only decoders. The sound decoders share the same address as the Digitrax operating decoders and so get the same commands. This entire installation required a considerable amount of wiring without the help of a circuit diagram. They work pretty well and I enjoy them, but it took some work to disassemble them, wire them up, test them, program them, and then reassemble them. I have made the sound conversion on only one USA locomotive, an S-4 switcher, but soon afterward, the sound decoder died, so it’s back to being a non-sound DCC unit.

Aristo locos have an easy plug for connecting a motor decoder, so all I have to do is tap the power pickups. Aristo locos also have speakers already in them; USA Trains do not, so one needs to factor in not only the purchase of a good 2x3.5 inch speaker, but also its installation.

There are all sorts of DC sound solutions out there; many of them require professional installation and horn/whistle trigger magnets located on your tracks somewhere. Make sure you understand thoroughly what you are getting and how much it is going to cost you before jumping in. I expect big things to come down the pike in the next couple of years, but none of them are here yet. — John

Another Question of DCC

I have not seen any discussion in model railroad magazines concerning the operational negatives of locomotives with DCC and sound installed. The various reviews comment on the sound quality, paint job, level of detail, etc., which is all good, but has anyone yet pointed out the problems with sound-equipped locos? Here are a few I’ve come across:

1) The inability to MU a DCC sound-equipped loco with a non-sound loco. Think you’re going to jazz up your layout by adding sound to your consist? NOT, unless you replace the consist with all sound locos. I have been successful, however, MUing locos with QSI sound together, even though they are of different manufacture (Atlas and BLI). I don’t know if you can MU different types of sound decoders together (e.g. QSI with ESU with Digitrax).

2) The current draw when a sound loco is powered up or restarted may shut down your layout, if you have several sound loco’s on the tracks. I have a dozen QSI units, but cannot have more than six active. There are products sold to help this problem (e.g. PowerShield from Tony’s Train Exchange), and current “wisdom” is to create more “power districts” (blocks) — but why must we add complexity to our track wiring just to use sound? Seems like a real dumb idea to me, especially since DCC was touted to be more “simple” (remember when they said we could do away with DC blocks?).

3) The QSI sound units have a nasty habit of shorting out track power when you toggle directions. I have been told that the new QSI chip upgrade will cure this problem — if I want to fork over $29.95 per locomotive. What a deal — get us to pay for their mistakes! This upgrade should be FREE.

4) Back EMF may be great for slow-speed operation with a single loco, but I’ve been told that you cannot consist locos with Back EMF because they will “fight each other.” Since my loco’s don’t have Back EMF (that’s part of the QSI chip upgrade), I’ve not tested this.

Ernie Carlson
Zigzag, OR

Let’s take them in order, Ernie.

First, I MU sound and non-sound units of all makes and types all the time under DCC. I have a four-unit ABBA lashup of F-units, two being straight DCC decoder-equipped and the other two being the Athearn/MRC AB set. They run together just fine. If you can get some sort of a speed match, you can MU together nearly anything. In fact, I’ve run QSI sound diesel units from BLI with Athearn units powered by NCE, a Proto 2000 powered by Digitrax, and an Atlas/QSI unit. All was good. If you take the time to set up CVs 21 and 22 correctly, you can have sound as your second unit, run the consist from the first unit, and still blow the horn and ring the bell.

Second, DCC is more simple when you compare the myriad little wiring blocks necessary to make a DC layout really functional. However, when you have a large layout and lots of locomotives, you are looking at an amperage issue. You can’t fool the laws of physics, Ernie. If you keep a small layout and only a few locos handy, you’ll never have a problem. I do have some very general wiring blocks on our test layout, and locos I’m not going to use may get parked in an unpowered block. This isn’t the complexity of a full DC block-wired layout, but I learned a couple of things from those days.

Third, we’ve got almost two-dozen QSI-equipped locomotives around here, and all have been run extensively. I have never had one short out track power for any reason other than derailing across a switch. The upgrade is the result of settling MTH’s lawsuit against QSI. It isn’t their fault they were sued, nor was it yours. The upgrade was an expensive bit of business for them, and their charge is just a nominal recovery fee.

Fourth, there are two levels of BEMF use within a decoder. The first is as a very obvious “cruise control” that keeps the loco at the same speed up and down grade. For multiunit operations, you’ll want to turn this off, and such a feature will always be selectable. The other use is as a performance enhancer, giving back the torque lost to silent decoder operation. This is generally not selectable and doesn’t interfere with MU operations. Hope this helps. — Ed.

N-Scale Questions

I think it is great that Kato is doing the work they are in N scale. However, they are not very customer oriented and I have contacted them about this issue. I would have purchased a California Zephyr set to include engines, if I could have purchased only 5-6 cars. However, Kato was adamant that it would only sell all 11 cars. I model South Carolina in the late 1960s, so this train would not fit at all, but I also have display shelves of favorite trains. Examples are the Orange Blossom Special, City of New Orleans, and Florida Special. Each of these is representative with two engines and 5-6 cars.

I am considering one set of the Santa Fe Super Chief for display. Incidentally, you could have mentioned that Kato also sells the PA/PB warbonnet units to go with the Super Chief. However, it would be much better if Kato also sold the Super Chief cars individually, as Con-Cor does. I really could use baggage-lounges and diners on the passenger trains that I do operate. Another couple of sleepers wouldn’t hurt either. I could use them as painted or repainting them for SCL or Southern. However, I cannot purchase individual cars, except from Con-Cor. Nothing against Con-Cors as I have some, but the Super Chief cars would be a nice contrast. 

On another topic, is anyone else having problems with Accumate couplers in N Scale? I have purchased several Atlas cars lately and ended up replacing the Accumate trucks with Micro-Trains on about half of them. The Accumates will not reliably connect to Micro-Trains and even sometimes with other Accumates. Why didn’t Atlas just make a deal with Micro-Trains and do it right?

By the way, one thing I admire about your publication is that you are not afraid to run letters that criticize your advertisers. Can’t say the same for the others. Keep up the good, objective work.

Bob Tugwell
Belton, SC

Let’s take your aggregate comments about N-scale passenger cars in their entirety and see if there isn’t a solution right there. You want two diesels and five to six cars out of the two diesels and 11-car passenger set for the California Zephyr, right? You would also like baggage-lounges, diners, and another couple of sleepers for other train use? Okay, now look at the CZ 11 car set. It has five dome cars that you won’t find on SCL or Southern, so those become most of your train and by far the most representative cars of the set. Left out are a baggage, three 10-6 sleepers, a sixteen section sleeper, and a diner. Take as many of those as you wish and trade off the few cars that remain.

You should also take a look at their four-car sets of Budd corrugated passenger cars. Since you’re willing to repaint, you can also take a gander at their smoothside fleet offerings. Finally, new to the party would be Kato’s lovely new Great Northern train offering with F-units and an assortment of cars. Not only do they have four-car sets, they also offer single cars in dome, coach, and sleepers. F7A+B sets are available as well as single A-units. This all ranks up as pretty customer-oriented, from my viewpoint. Check out their web site for more details at www.katousa.com.

Meanwhile, Atlas has their cars assembled in China along with the couplers. Most of my N-scale Atlas cars work fine right from the box, but a car or two has needed a little TLC to get the couplers right. The Micro-Trains couplers are made in the USA, so either they would have to be added to the cars here or shipped over there for assembly, both of which would add a lot to the sale price. The conversion solution is a good one and probably not a lot more expensive than the delivered price. Sometimes simply disassembling the Accumates and then filing off flash and making other small adjustments will net a good working coupler. — Ed.

Entry into DCC Question

I read your articles in Model Railroad News about DCC. I am in my 70s and have two 4x8 tables of HO and still can run 3 to 4 trains at once. I know nothing about DCC. Can you tell me where I can write to get what to buy and how to set it up? Books or whatever would be helpful.

David Krugman
Boulder, CO

Hi David, it sounds like you’re doing just fine right now. People who haven’t used DCC sometimes harbor some interesting ideas about what it will or won’t do for them, so your first job is to write down what you want to accomplish by going to DCC. Books such as Digitrax’s Big Book of DCC are helpful but may be a bit techie at this point. When I first took on DCC, I visited some guys who already used it and learned a lot from them. This let me head into the process with my eyes open. I know there are some operators around the Boulder area, and I’m sure some of them would be glad to host you for a visit. Try asking at your hobby shop. — Ed.

Trainz Simulator Information Update

Thank you for printing such a comprehensive and balanced review of Trainz Railroad Simulator 2006 in the September edition of Model Railroad News. In Phil Scandura’s Suggested Improvements he asks for a printed keyboard shortcut menu to be included in the package. These are in fact included as PDF files which can be accessed by clicking on the “Extras” button in the game start-up menu. There is one for both the Driver and Surveyor applications of the software. It is a simple matter of printing them out or taking the files to a quick print outlet for reproduction. We are always listening to what our customers have to say, implementing features, and improvements that continue to keep TRAINZ at the forefront of virtual railroading, and we thank Phil for his review.

Lance Jago
Community Relations Manager, Auran Games.
Brisbane, Australia

Thanks for the update, Lance. Any chance you’ll release a Macintosh version so that those of us with Macs can play with virtual trains, too? — Ed.

Brand Identity

I have been following the story/controversy of the UP-CSX etc. brand identity since it first broke. It seems to me that those large companies are making a large to do about nothing. How can us small cottage industries possibly affect the reputation or profit of these large companies in a negative way? In fact, the opposite can be true.

Take as example the Lionel Company after WWII. Their biggest seller at the time was the GG-1 in Pennsy colors. The Santa Fe felt at a disadvantage. They felt their public image was being lost in the general public’s eye. The Santa Fe realized the publicity value of toys sold to a large group of men and boys. So to address the problem, Santa Fe paid (yes, paid, did not demand money for brand protection) to Lionel $7,000 (a large sum in 1950s dollars) to manufacture F units with the famous silver/red warbonnet scheme.

This locomotive became the all-time Lionel bestseller and the most recognized locomotive color scheme of all! Even those not interested in railroads know this scheme! The advertising value to Santa Fe went well beyond the $7,000 spent.

I propose in all seriousness that the UP, CSX etc. do something similar. Pay the loco and car manufacturers a small fee per unit and state as such in the advertising and on the boxes. What an inexpensive method to advertise and improve their image! That would reduce lawyer fees at the same time.

Sincerely,

Elvin Howland
Layout Concepts
Manton, MI

Ah, those were the days, Elvin! One look at Santa Fe’s art, publicity, and paint schemes tells the whole story. ATSF was desperately trying to project an image. At that time, passenger services were a very large part of their business, and both airlines and highways were stealing it away.

Today’s railroads complain bitterly that they have to put up with Amtrak, never mind going out to get any passenger business. Many of the Class Ones turn away shipping because they have more than they can handle right now. The nation’s rails are approaching their maximum capacity and gridlock is in the near future. These are different times in which we live. — Ed.